Interview with Arbitrage Andy
Contents
MR: You’re the second person I’ve interviewed in social media — I asked this to Lindsey Metselaar from We Met At Acme — can you check and tell me your average phone screen time each day?
AA: Almost 6 hours and 45 minutes.
MR: How do you feel about that number?
AA: It's a lot. I'd be alarmed by it if I wasn't in the social media business.
MR: What app do you spend a lot of your time on?
AA: It's definitely a combination of Instagram and Twitter.
MR: And what do you do to get off the computer and unplug?
AA: It's tough. It's really tough between a day job, side businesses, and then just doing things for fun on my own. You honestly have to physically separate yourself from the phone.
MR: So how do you do that?
AA: I'll either leave it in my apartment to go for a walk outside, or if I need to plug it in to charge it, sometimes I'll tuck it away underneath the desk, inside the bureau – just put it out of reach so that I can focus on things outside of it.
MR: How do you keep track of all your memes?
AA: That's a really interesting question just because as the business has grown over the years, there’s more volume and therefore more facets to the question.
In the beginning, it's more of a scattered approach, and over time it becomes necessary to start to organize, at least in some capacity. It can be rough, but you do need to start to segment stuff.
If we're talking about my computer, I have designated folders for the newsletter, I have designated folders for Instagram, for things that I might share in the newsletter – and just general images I might use for promotions.
So there definitely needs to be a method to the madness. Admittedly, there are thousands and thousands of photos on my phone. It's actually a problem.
MR: I’m sure you have the phenomenon of, “Oh, I remember such a great meme – where do I find it?”
AA: Yes. I know. It's a fair point. There is stuff that gets missed. Typically, I'm in such a hurry and it's not worth it to go back to try to find something like that. People don’t know how much of the meme game is speed. You have to be the first to move on trends and hope that your content gets picked up in the algorithm and social media flow.
Especially for the memes. I'll use third party software to generate them, to put videos together, advertisements. And then all of that is housed within that software.
MR: Is there a software that you’d recommend?
AA: I've used everything to put out different types of content. I've used Windows Movie Maker, I've used Final Cut Pro, and there a host of various meme making/content making options in the App Store — usually comes down to workflow preferences.
MR: Are there any apps you use that you use for productivity that most people will not have heard of?
AA: I'm a pretty traditional guy in that I will use the Notes app quite a bit. I’ve also got a book, and every day I'll put down a physical to-do list. My methods are definitely a little bit scattered.
Arc'teryx vs. Patagonia (and Deal Sleds)
MR: Let me ask about eating in the city. What place do you order in the most from?
AA: I’m on the Upper East Side at the time. I'd say Uva is pretty good for Italian. Typically, I'll order from there. I like Tacombi, which is a Mexican place. I'd go there three times a week if I could, which might be a hot take, but is difficult to find good Mexican in the city.
MR: What about clothes? Do you have a uniform you wear, or do you like mixing it up?
AA: I was a college athlete, so I think that has translated over a little bit into what I prefer to wear. I started out as a trader pre-Covid, so before all this “work-from-home” took grasp, it was typically Lulu[lemon] pants, Peter Millar golf polos, maybe Brooks Brothers, or a Charles Tyrwhitt shirt — and that was back when the vests were an office staple in Manhattan. I love my deal sleds — bit loafers — and own over 15 pairs. The sleds are a staple.
MR: What's your favorite vest?
AA: I've got a nice collection at this point of my career. I'd like to say Patagonia, but given that they discontinued selling in bulk to most financial firms a few years ago, I probably have to go with Arc'teryx. I think it would definitely be Arc'teryx or Orvis.
MR: Do you have any vintage swag you wear? Like Enron baseball caps?
AA: I've got some items here and there. We were instrumental in selling financial-themed merch from Lehman Brothers, Enron, and other old shops before it became saturated. I've got a couple nicer Masters-themed polos from my grandfather that are in pretty good shape that I still wear with some cool retro logos.
MR: Do you golf?
AA: I used to golf. I was on the team in middle school. I play every now and then, but I'm definitely not a religious golfer, though I wouldn’t be a hindrance for good players from a pace perspective. I'm more of a fisherman for sure. Fly fishing, competition bass fishing, that kind of thing.
Fly Fishing
MR: Where do you get your fishing stuff?
AA: So actually crazy story — I grew up fishing quite frequently in my family and my grandfather actually taught me how to fly fish. He was a massive fly fisherman and he passed away years ago of cancer. I actually got the call that he had passed away while I was fly fishing in a river with his rod that he had given me. Pretty wild moment.
He taught me quite a bit about it. There's a lot of locales I'd like to visit, but typically, a lot of trout fishing in North Carolina, Washington, the Sierra Nevada mountains, and then of course upstate New York, which I haven't tried yet, but you can get into some striped bass and beauty trout with poppers — top water — and flies.
MR: What do you like about it?
AA: I'm not fishing to eat the fish, which is ironic to a lot of people. I'm not a big fish guy and that's not why I'm out there fishing.
To me, it's the pure sport. It really is, in my opinion, one of the last just pure sports. You're interacting with nature. There's a lot of detail that goes into it, in terms of picking the right patterns, the right bait that's going to work, getting to the locale.
And I think more broadly, I relate that to life. Life is some days you go out, and you get absolutely nothing. And then other days, you tweak one little thing, and you get massive results.
So, I would say all of that. There are few dopamine rushes equal to that primal pull on the end of the line, especially if you can tell it’s a big fish.
There's also the factor of solitude. It's very peaceful.
MR: How would you recommend someone get into this?
AA: I would certainly get a guide. That would be my recommendation. I think people underestimate and think anybody can roll up to a body of water and throw a rod in, and that may be true in some areas.
But there's a lot of strategy that goes into fly fishing. You have to know what time of year it is. You have to know what the fish are looking at. Which bugs are hatching.
Typically, if people go out and they haven't done it before, they're not going to have a good time because they need a guide to put them on the fish, which just essentially means, increase the chances that they're going to have success.
MR: Is there a place you’d recommend?
AA:. I would definitely recommend anywhere in Northern California, Lake Okeechobee in Florida, striper fishing off New Jersey, and largemouth fishing in the South. Really anywhere the middle of Northern California, near the Oregon border produces some of the best trout around and they’re wild. Very few of these trout have even come in contact with people before.
This is the region of California where a lot of the Indian tribes lived, when people were first settling in California. There’s a lot of history there, but it's really about getting out in nature, getting separated from distractions. I can assure you, on those trips, I checked my phone once a day.
MR: You really don't like fish?
AA: I'll eat some types of fish. I'm a sushi guy — no sashimi — but ironically, anything that's very fishy tasting kind of wigs me out. It's a tough one to explain. I didn't grow up eating much fish. That might have something to do with it.
MR: You know that Munger line about the fishing lures?
AA: No, what is it?
MR: Munger goes to a guy who sells fishing tackle and asks if the fish really take these purple and green lures he was selling. The guy behind the counter says, “Mister, I’m not selling to the fish.”
AA: That's great. There’s only so many ways to do it, but picking tackle is definitely fun.
The Social Club
MR: What’s the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning?
AA: I'm not sure if it's healthy, but I'll check both work email as well as business email immediately.
MR: Do you check your email through the night, or do you sleep through the night?
AA: No, I sleep through the night. If I wake up and I roll over at 6:30, I'll check my inbox on my phone just to ensure there's nothing super pressing.
Typically, I get up at 7:30 every day, but more recently, I've been trying to go to bed a little bit earlier to get up a little bit earlier, just because I have that first hour of the day where I know most people are not online. If I have that one hour where no one is really expecting me to answer anything at that hour, I am able to get ahead and feel like I have an edge on what I need to get done for the day.
MR: And what does your media consumption look like? Throughout the day, are you just haphazardly clicking on links?
AA: First of all, I think there's too much stuff out there. I think a lot of people suffer from noise. Whether it's global news, or markets news, or hot takes on Twitter, or whatever it is — there's a lot of stuff that you have to sift through to actually interact with things you want to interact with.
I'll consume anything I can get my hands on. I've got my staples, which typically involves scanning Financial Times, Market Watch, if I'm on Bloomberg, it's always good to get stuff from the source.
A lot of it is Twitter, honestly. I've become a big Twitter user because of the ability to see things in real time. I didn't used to be. And I think there is a lot of noise on Twitter, that is the downside, but I do appreciate the way that you're at least able to curate what you see every day, or at least you are, now.
MR: Are there people you need follow on Twitter to see what they’re saying?
AA: Yes. I try to follow everybody that has crossover into what I'm interested in. So whether that's Bill Ackman or Naval, or certain crypto gurus like Will Clemente or Cobie, I follow exactly what I want to consume. Typically, it's varied. It might be a Navy SEAL like Jocko, it might be a pro-bass fisherman, really just things that I find personally interesting at the end of the day.
Cryptonymous
MR: Do you use any dating apps?
AA: I used to. I've had a girlfriend for about four years, now, so I haven't been on there, but when I was younger in the city, definitely.
MR: I'm assuming she knows about your Arbitrage Andy world, right?
AA: Yes.
MR: What’s your general philosophy of remaining anonymous?
AA: That’s an interesting question. I think it's transformed. Arbitrage Andy started out as strictly a financial meme page. And over the years, it's grown into a couple different things and the tone of the account has shifted a little bit. The focus has shifted a little bit.
MR: How would you say the tone has shifted?
AA: I'll give you an example. Four or five years ago, before Covid, before the GameStop, AMC, the retail investing phenomena, before Goldman Sachs was getting pressured via social media to increase lunch stipends or dinner or whatever the hell it is — before all of that, in finance it was still a bit taboo to mix social media and finance. I think most people would agree on that. And so at the time, there a) wasn't much upside to people knowing who you were, and b) was risk for your job.
I didn't necessarily work at, what I would consider, a traditional finance firm. It was very niche stuff. And so, I wasn't as concerned about it.
But the second piece of it — a lot of celebrities that are famous, it looks like they're enjoying that fame, but at the end of the day, there is a lot of value in remaining anonymous, remaining private, and having that aspect of your life be private truly.
I think people sometimes look at anonymity, especially nowadays, as a negative — as you have something to hide. And I wouldn't even say that's the case. It's just I value my privacy. I'd rather be wealthy and anonymous than rich and famous. I think ultimately it comes down to personal preference, but at the end of the day, in this day and age, it's just simply not necessary.
MR: Do you hold crypto?
AA: Oh yes.
MR: Do you own a diversified portfolio of crypto?
AA: I'm diversified, but I would say I'm very biased towards Ethereum and Bitcoin. I'd say about 70% of my total allocation is in those two names right now.
MR: And how do you break it down between Ethereum and Bitcoin?
AA: It's pretty even. I'd say right now, the lion’s share, probably 40% bitcoin and 30% Ethereum. I took a little bit of profit on Ethereum, but very bullish on both long-term cases. This is not financial advice, but I hold a bit of MATIC as well which I think will perform well around the ETH updates this year.
Stoic Influencer
MR: Do you ever talk about your politics? You're pretty apolitical, but I would say you skew right?
AA: Yes. I'd say that's fair. I'd probably say that I have conservative tendencies, but I'd probably classify myself more as a libertarian if anything.
MR: And are there any thinkers that have influenced your politics?
AA: Yes, it's varied. I'm a big proponent of 48 Laws of Power, Art of War, Marcus Aurelius, some of the Stoics. I majored in International Relations with a focus on counterterrorism, so I have a hawkish worldview, very fiscally conservative, I would say. Socially, pretty willing to accept anything. One of the themes of my belief system that's only strengthened in recent years is a belief in small government.
MR: Are there any friends you’ve made through social media that would surprise people?
AA: Yes, probably. Primarily through Instagram, there's a lot of characters on there and social media is wild in that it gives you the ability to interact with people instantly across the world –I've interacted with special forces veterans, bank CEOs, pro golfers, financial commentators, shoe brands, and more.
MR: You let them know who you are?
AA: No. This is strictly through social media DMs [direct messages].
MR: If you could have lunch with anyone alive right now who would it be?
AA: Probably Jocko Willink, Jerome Powell, or Bill Ackman.
MR: What do you do for exercise?
AA: I do a lot of things. I was pretty active growing up — like I mentioned, a college athlete. I used to play quite a bit of basketball, always down for some soccer, I'll run every now and then, I lift weights pretty frequently.
MR: How much do you bench?
AA: Nowadays? I'd be hard pressed to give you an accurate number. Back in the day, I think my best was 405 pounds for two or three reps.
MR: Do you run?
AA: Yes. I run a good amount. More recently in New York, I've been walking quite a bit. I'll get two or three brisk walks in every day.
Ambition for Cash
MR: What were your top three played songs last year? And no cheating…everyone wants to seem cooler than they are.
AA: I won’t.
AA: Yes, the first one last year was “Ambition for Cash” by Key Glock.
Number two is “Dopechella” by Yo Gotti, featuring Rick Ross.
Number three is “DOLLAZ ON MY HEAD” by Gunna, featuring Young Thug.
MR: Why are you laughing about those three songs?
AA: It’s just funny — I should have prefaced it — I am an avid hip hop rap fan. I would say that's about 90% of what I listen to.
MR: Is there anyone now that you like listening to that you’re following?
AA: Yes, for sure. If I'm talking to a real hip hop fan, typically, they'll agree with me on most of this, but Pop Smoke is the favorite of mine. He was a rapper from Brooklyn who was killed in L.A. He was one of my favorites. His mentor was 50 Cent, who is one of my other favorites.
Pop Smoke's up there, Young Dolph, he's a rapper from Memphis who was also, actually, killed last year. And who else is in here? Kevin Gates and Dave East. I like gritty hustle rap about guys making it out of bad situations. Puts my life into perspective and motivates me as well.
Cutting Your Teeth
MR: Is there anyone you like watching on TV for financial news?
AA: I would say I've moved away from the traditional media outlets.
MR: Do you read Matt Levine?
AA: Yes. Matt's stuff is solid. Nowadays I find myself listening to more people Michael Saylor talking about MicroStrategy and Bitcoin. Crypto Cobie is a crypto billionaire who made his fortune a few bull markets ago. He's one of the more influential figures in the crypto space. I'll still follow people like Cathie Wood Ark or Bill Ackman on Twitter. I tend to like people with contrarian or realistic views that don’t add a lot of fluff.
I think we're in an interesting environment. We're seriously in a completely unprecedented, economic, social, global, environment right now. You have governments making large decisions, wars going on, the themes of decentralization and sovereignty are growing rapidly. People are much less trusting of institutions now.
MR: If you just had to give advice to a young gun just starting out his career in finance right now, what would you tell him?
AA: To be very clear, I wasn't a white shoe banker. I wasn't someone that had an investment banking job at a bulge bracket bank. That wasn't what I did. I worked in a pretty niche area of sales and trading, and for what that stint lacked in that formal financial institution structure and support, it made up for in responsibility and ownership. This was a role in which I came in at the age of 23, and I was responsible for building a book of business immediately — sourcing transactions, executing and trading them, and managing the business development side of things after the first deal. That's not an opportunity that most people get when they first join those larger institutions. In my opinion this is where you cut your teeth and earn your badges.
There is upside, obviously to working for prestigious large institutions. It's very evident. My advice would be to make sure you are uncomfortable from a growth and ability standpoint. You need to be proactive in cutting your teeth, and making mistakes, and actually learning the skills that matter, if you want to be in a revenue generating or front office role. That will only serve you down the line in any endeavor you take on. You should be going more for responsibility than prestige or titles — people get hung up on that stuff nowadays — but what are you actually doing day-to-day?
Some people would certainly disagree with me, but I'm a very sovereign individual. Financial freedom is a goal of mine. It's something that I'm actively working towards every day. I’d rather forge my own path and be less reliant on institutions, on a nine-to-five, on someone that I'm beholden to like a boss or director.
So my advice to younger people would certainly be to start their own business, take a job that you might be a little bit uncomfortable with where you're taking on significantly more responsibility than you thought. And you got to learn. You got to constantly learn because there's nothing worse than somebody that thinks they know everything.